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Iron Flame by Rebecca Yarros Book Review

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Written by: Cory

Iron Flame by Rebecca Yarros review

I finished the book, and I’m so ready to discuss Iron Flame with you. As you know, I LOVED Fourth Wing so much, I read it around 5 times and led me to create this super fan website. We had so many questions about the characters, and I was so excited to create a ton of Fourth Wing theories for you.

Alright, grab your cuppa and let’s have a natter about Iron Flame, shall we? After Fourth Wing had us all on the edge of our seats, I bet we were both chomping at the bit to see what was next. Expectations? Sky-high! But did Iron Flame deliver?

The non spoiler Iron Flame Review 4.5/5 stars

The answer is complicated. Iron Flame is a great book, but was it as excellent as Fourth Wing? Not quite. However, there is a certain logic to its failure to match the explosive nature of its predecessor. Fourth Wing constructed an elaborate universe and introduced a cast of fascinating characters. It was brimming with action and peppered with ingenious elements that invited us to interpret the subtext and develop an array of intriguing theories. It set the mind whirling, ever-searching for a hint or a clue that might surface in Iron Flame.

Iron Flame, while amazing, isn’t quite the wild ride we experienced before, and this is largely because it expanded the universe and resolved nearly every query we harboured from the first book. It’s almost like we’ve read Fourth Wing so many times in search of clues, found them, and Iron Flame delivered them, therefore removing almost all elements of surprise. Seriously…almost because part 2 of the book? CRAZY!

Astonishingly, all my theories were either confirmed or refuted, providing closure to almost every enigma I had pondered. In revealing these secrets, the author didn’t keep us constantly guessing with a flood of surprises that had us on the edge of our seats. We only start to see new, exciting stuff when we’re about 80% through the book, even as we’re still getting answers about characters like Lilith Sorrengail, Melgren, and Xaden’s special skills. It’s here we start to see hints of what’s coming in the third book. It’s in the last three chapters that things pick up again, and we’re all in, trying to figure out what might happen next. And yeah, things are getting really, really exciting again!

While Iron Flame is undoubtedly a stellar read, it doesn’t quite emulate the adrenaline-fuelled, action-packed nature of its forerunner. I remain an enthusiast, undeterred, and have already embarked on a second reading, so I can share my new tin-foil theories with you for the third book in the Empyrean Series (I already have quite the list!!)

Spoilers in the comments section, so please proceed carefully, only after you’ve read Iron Flame. Can’t wait to get the discussion going. So what did you think? What did you like, what did you not? Xaden, Violet, Andarna? So so exciting to finally have our answers.

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Posted by:

Cory

Hello! I’m Cory, a devoted superfan of the Fourth Wing, Iron Flame and the Empyrean Series. My passion for these epic tales has led me to read and reread the books, each time uncovering new layers of information. I’ve created this site to share my insights and discoveries with fellow fans and anyone interested in exploring the rich world of Empyrean.

100 responses to “Iron Flame by Rebecca Yarros Book Review”

  1. Sanita Avatar
    Sanita

    After my first read (listening audiobook)
    3 of 5 stars

    Psychology, relationships, keeping it real – good

    Story, details, logic – not that good in this book

    Events as such – very good. (just not such good placement in the plot, not that structured, meaningful and logical as first one)

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      That’s fair. I now look at the pair of books as a Q&A. Fourth Wing was the Q and Iron Flame gave us all the A.

      Reply
    2. Sarah Avatar
      Sarah

      Yeah. The bones are there but you can tell it was rushed. I hope they slow down for the next 3. I’m a Dresden files fan so I’m used to waiting lol.

      Reply
      1. Cory Avatar
        Cory

        I think book 3 will be explosive. I reckon she will bring so many new questions to the table, we won’t even know what to do. (hope hope)

        Reply
  2. Lucy Avatar
    Lucy

    4/5 for me

    I enjoyed Iron Flame but as you say not as much as Fourth Wing, but its always hard to live up to a first! Definitely it felt more of a slow burner giving some answers – where it picked up again near the end.

    I think Vi’s second signet will be to do with Truth / Truth Sayer – apparently to be revealed in book 3! I also played with ideas surrounding Andarnas ability to “hide” but at Vi’s core that powers the signet and she wants “Truth” so this fits with the hints such as the way Nora (truth sayer) is brought in and in the epigraph of chapter 35.

    Andarna – there is so much more to this that Rebecca has said will be revealed in book 3.

    Venin – maybe Vi can find a way to reverse them with Andarna as theres a lot of history that was lost.

    I think we will be waiting longer for the next book it won’t be in 6 months I’d wager 9months – possibly 1 year.

    Love the series – hated how Iron Flame ended!!!

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      I think this is such a fair review. It’s very hard to live up to the first but I think she will slay with her third book. I think the series will go like this: crazy emotional rollercoaster with lots of questions, answers most questions but with crazy cliffhanger, book 3 will be like the first one with crazy rollercoaster and more questions, book 4 tame answering all the questions from book 3 and opening up to the grand finale, book 5 a complete utter crazy that will literally make us cry, throw up, hug ourselves, hug our pillows and eventually prep for the grand finale which can at this point go either way.

      I like where you are going with the Truth Sayer but I feel that Xaden, while keeping secrets, he won’t actually lie to her no longer. I think truth sayer might be almost too “normal” of a signet for her. I reckon she will either be able to change venin back, mend the soul, somehow deal with time (like go back in time) etc because Andarna is too bad ass and Violet is too special. WHO KNOWS. At this point, I’m a lot more invested in Andarna’s story. And we have so much to understand from her. Why did she wait 650 years? HOW did she know about Violet in advance? She said she was LEFT BEHIND for some purpose. What does that mean left behind? SO many questions.

      HATED how Iron Flame ended. Jack and Xaden aye? UGH

      Reply
      1. Lucy Avatar
        Lucy

        Omg so true!!

        I know what you mean it is a bit “meh” isn’t it… maybe some kind of combo signet maybe she can see the truth of mending the soul and the price she would have to pay or turning venin back is definitely something – also she sees Liam and it makes it feel real that he’s there maybe a signet relating with this… it’s definitely gearing around this for me though as its clear these 2 are not fitting into the standard “rider” status. I cant wait to hear other theories. Until we get that AHA! Moment. I reckon there’s something in a “history” repeating itself kind of thing with Andarna, she was obviously needed for the wards here but Vi also highlights theres more than 7 types… and theres something we don’t “yet” know about because the first 200 years of history from Navarre is not available currently. We also don’t know enough about the dragons history as so secretive. The royal family ,”could be sitting on information in secret or something along those lines. And now Cam is outed we may see more. Scribes wouldn’t want precious works destroyed but if it holds key information that could detriment the kingdom they would feel the need to hide it. Its clear even the original 6 were torn in the views. Such a cliffhanger. So many things my mind is spiralling 😂 but most excited about finding more about Andarna and the signet. Definitely why did she wait and what did she mean. Need to process my thoughts then will read again !!

        Reply
        1. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          Doing the second re-read and aiming to update all the wiki now. New characters, new info that we have. And then…theories! I have so many I’m so excited to share. Quick one, I think if we brought shitty Jack back, we will def bring Liam back. And I think he will be some bad ass venin. I also think that Xaden + Liam will team up somehow 😀 (not in a good way at first…)

          Reply
          1. Lucy Avatar
            Lucy

            One can only hope at Liams return! But what would be the cost 😱 … do you mean Xaden and Jack teaming up or Liam coming back and them teaming up?! And the rider / venin combo = deadly! Ooh so many thoughts. Looking forward to the wiki update.

          2. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            I think Liam will come as venin too and Xaden and Liam will be teaming up. And I think together will wreak havoc. Do you remember Violet’s dream with the venin? That she will drop the wards for love? Well I think we now have a reason to believe those are not just dreams but actual conversations with venin. Much like that Xaden had too, and turned true :O

          3. Shenaigh Avatar
            Shenaigh

            I don’t think they brought Jack back. He was venin so couldn’t be killed by just a mountain on the head. The body was probably discovered and then they tried to mend his soul back to human. But I mean I would love it if Liam came back. Haha.

          4. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            Ok, I see what you’re saying. You think Jack was venin to begin with? Hmmm, I am on my second re-read, I will come back once I figure it out. I remember something Violet was saying during their fight on the mat that maybe he was already venin feeding from power? Am I making this up?

          5. Lucy Avatar
            Lucy

            I’m with Shenaigh, I think Jack was venin when fell too … yeah he did use some power on the mat which sounded like channeling.

            The mending the soul bit makes me think they know he is venin though. And could be another hint at Vi’s second signet.

            Definitely conversations or projections – whether it was that she was sharing Xadens dreams through sleep as his shields likely down through their bond or if the venin was feeding both of them the same dreams to get at least one of them to turn.

          6. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            Found it! Chapter 60. That’s when Jack basically admits that he made his choice the moment he saw Violet bonding the most powerful dragon. Then Violet stated that he turned before challenging her. She didn’t recognise it back then, etc. So there we are. HE WAS VENIN before he died. That does make me have second thoughts about Liam. Maybe Liam is finally resting in peace…

          7. CurlsTruly Avatar
            CurlsTruly

            I think he is back as Venim, she referenced one having blonde hair when they were fighting at Basgaith & was descriptive about the girl having a heart shaped face & being beautiful I one point….Aurelie, Nadine…..so many questions.

          8. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            Oh, OH.Well damn, that could be a great twist. I do think Liam will be back because we just love him and Yarros wants to make us cry!

          9. Ray Avatar
            Ray

            I think he was already Venin and that’s probably why Violets signet was lightning. She needed to protect her friend (Liam) and without knowing it, the only thing that would protect Liam… from Jack the Venin… was lightning.

      2. Sarah Avatar
        Sarah

        I’ve heard Time or Souls as themes for her 2nd. The way the seconds stretch in the battle or the way she interacts with Liam. Also, Nolon tried to mend a soul… now we all NEED that to be possible… so if her signet is soul related maybe these 2 are fated to change venin and end the war.

        Reply
        1. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          That’s what I’m thinking? I reckon she will have the ability to mend souls somehow with the help of an actual mender.

          Reply
        2. Kat Avatar
          Kat

          I like where you’re going with this. A signet that may be soul related. I also thought that her dreams with the Venin might come true in the third book and now I could only think that they are related somehow. Magic has to have a balance. Venin channel directly from the ground, they take from the source without giving back. So maybe to return Venins corrupt souls back to human she will have to use the power within the wards to return magic back to the source and somehow make it impossible to ever create a Venin again and Andarna somehow also plays a key role in that. The dragons probably know how to reverse a Venin but at a great cost to themselves, which is why they created the wards.

          Reply
          1. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            I love this chain of thoughts so so much!

          2. Erin Avatar
            Erin

            I think Violets second signet is distance wielder. When she questions Xaden about his he says there hasn’t been one in centuries, kind of like a lightening wielder. And it fits with Andarnas original gift stopping time and how Andardna repeatedly says “I’ll be where I am needed”. Yarros has said in an interview that it has already manifested and I think it’s going to be subtle. And it’s how she saves Sawyer and gets to the wardstone so quickly. Also going to come in handy when she needs to travel throughout the continent to gather information or battle. Long dragon rides are difficult for her now.

          3. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            That was a very subtle reference indeed. And I mean it would be incredible for her to be a distance wielder. I like this a lot.

          4. Carrie Avatar
            Carrie

            Erin I think a distance wielder as well! Even right before she asked Xaden if he was one she beat everyone to the edge of the ward by 15 minutes, how did she make such good timing?

          5. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            She would be pretty incredible to be a distance wielder as well, right?

      3. Shenaigh Avatar
        Shenaigh

        Did you see the interview with Rebecca about how Violets second signet has already manifested in Iron Flame? Would love to know what you think it is based on that revelation. I reread it and couldn’t really figure it out. Some theories are: amplifying other peoples signets, seeing the future, seeing the dead. The question is what does Violet NEED? She needs knowledge. And to help those she loves. It’ll be interesting to see what it is.

        Reply
        1. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          Wait what? Where is the interview???

          Reply
          1. Kat Avatar
            Kat

            Ok, I found the interview with variety and as I was reading through it I believe I figured out her second signet and pretty sure I’m 90% correct.

            Yarros said she manifest her signet in Iron Flame, and early in the interview she mentioned that Violet needs to know everything. We readers and audio readers know this because it’s throughout the whole book. She wants to know everything about Xaden, but afraid of the answers if she were to ask. Anyways she’s an inntinnsic. The proof that I can only think of and will have to look up again is when Xaden takes her on the throne and she reads his thoughts, what he’s thinking and feeling. He doesn’t even seem aware that he did that.
            I’m hoping I’m wrong and leaving the 10% relating to something dealing with the soul because I like that idea much better. I really hope that my 90% is wrong but I do believe there maybe another section in the book that something similar happens, but again I’ll have review it again to be sure.

          2. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            I am going to search for the interview. This is wild. I’m on my second re-read now and trying to find more clues as I go along. I will share as soon as!

          3. Trixi Avatar
            Trixi

            Maybe Violet turns inntinnsic to, or becomes like Dain – reading minds when touching? As mentioned about his thoughts about her on the throne. And the way she figured out his second signet was that signets become what you NEED. And she hates the secrets so maybe her second signet is inntinnsic too? Like the nightmares about the venin, could it be that she read his mind in her sleep?

          4. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            It could be…I’m formulating a theory about it. WHAT IF…it has to do with the time when she was imagining Liam in the torture room? I am not home, I only have access to my copy of Iron Flame, can someone please help me, did they kill the venin that attacked Violet at the end of Fourth Wing? Didn’t Xaden kill it? Because if that is the cause, it seems to me that she can somehow talk to the dead.

          5. Halima Avatar
            Halima

            Hello! I just checked the book, but it doesn’t mention anything about Xander and the others finishing the venin that attacked Violet. After Violet blacks out, the next scene is Xander and the others discussing their next step to save her. Assuming you’re talking about the sage (the one who Tarin recognized as a general) then no, Xander didn’t finish him off, as he shows up towards the end in Iron Flame.

          6. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            Hmmmm thank you for checking! This is really interesting. 🧐

          7. Lucy Avatar
            Lucy

            It says she killed the rider with lightning and got stabbed with the poison blade and then as shes falling…
            “Xaden pulls the venin from the wyverns back and yanks him downward, right into the dagger he holds into his outstretched hand”…

          8. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            Alright good. So that is dead indeed. But then how is she communicating with the sage…

        2. Bobbi Avatar
          Bobbi

          I think her second signet has to do with dreams… maybe she will be able to predict the future or something similar to Xaden as an inntinnsic…

          Reply
          1. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            YES! I’m starting to see it too. Check this comment here-> https://www.empyreanriders.com/articles/iron-flame-verdict-was-the-xaden-is-inntinnsic-theory-proven-or-disproven/#comment-576 Really well said.

      4. Gail Avatar
        Gail

        I had never considered her as a special mender! That would make a lot of sense actually!

        Reply
        1. Amanda Avatar
          Amanda

          Ah, a “Soul Mender”. I sure hope so!

          Reply
  3. Sarah Maxwell Avatar
    Sarah Maxwell

    Ok, I disagree, while I loved fourth wing I also LOVE Iron flame! The nonstop fast paced had me feeling every emotion over and over. I am in awe of Rebecca Yarros and her ability to make the reader feel it all. After everything Iron wing gave us I can’t even guess what the next 3 books will bring but I am 100% here for it.

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely loved it! Am I desperate for book 3? Yes yes yes!
      Which one did you liked more? Did you expect us to get all the answers? To me that was the most exciting surprise. Most writers take 3 books before giving us all the answers. Iron Flame was very well structured for offering answers, I’ve got to say. Answers about mama sorrengail, Mira, Dain and so much more!!!

      Reply
  4. Kerry Avatar
    Kerry

    I don’t think it could match the thrill of Fourth Wing because — as you said — we already know this universe. That said, I still loved it. And the end! I was sitting on my couch, mumbling “did that just happen?!”

    I feel like emotionally, we got off easy with Iron Flame (should I be sad about General Sorrengail? Oops), so that makes me TERRIFIED of what awaits in Book 3. I need a breather before I do a re-read!

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      I agree 100%. I think you nailed it with “emotionally, we got off easy with Iron Flame”. But book 3 will definitely be terrifying. I have no doubt.

      Reply
  5. Trixi Avatar
    Trixi

    I really liked the book as well. It was great reading about Andarna being a sassy moody teenager.
    Sometimes Violet and Xadens fights got a little tiring, and I feel like ending a book on a cliffhanger (which Xaden turning into a venin is in my opinion) is a little cheap – like jumpscares in scary movies. I would have liked a little more information about Andarnas species in this book. I would get the next book even without a cliffhanger. But if there is three more books I understand she wants to keep some info to fill the other books with.

    And having Xadens super-jealous ex also felt a bit.. cheesy I suppose. Girls fighting over a boy is not a trope I like very much but it seems by the end of the book that they have gotten past it?

    Overall I still thought the book was great, and I’m also kinda sad I found Fourth Wing earlier this year because now I need to wait for all of the books to be released :’)

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      I understand the sentiment. I didn’t love the torture and the jealous triangle. It did feel unnecessary because I usually love women supporting women and not the other way around. Not for a boy as you said. Apart from these two I loved loved loved it. I think we are going to wait a year for Book 3. Most excited about Andarna and I cannot wait to try and decipher what’s Violet new signet is.

      Reply
  6. Soleil Farrell Avatar
    Soleil Farrell

    I’m wrecked after reading. Reading everyone else’s comments are making me feel slightly better… my main question is- there’s no way xaden is always a venin from here on out right???? Someone give me faith he gets turned back? Also he made a comment about the venin general waiting for him and he told violet “do us both a favor and don’t ask why”… what did that mean?

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      “do us both a favor and don’t ask why” -> I honestly thought it’s because he can read minds/intentions right? BUT, someone did say that venin are just as capable at keeping their shields up so probably thats not it. So maybe it had to do with more of those dreams.

      I don’t know where the book is going. It feels crazy that the end of book 2 will turn Xaden. But then Xaden always said to Violet “you will be the death of me”. So maybe we do really need to kill Xaden. But hopefully bring him back one way or another.

      Reply
      1. Tinkerbell Avatar
        Tinkerbell

        What if the general is his mom? And that’s why they knew he would turn? Did they even state if the general was male or female?

        Reply
        1. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          I don’t think they mentioned it, altho why do I remember a “she”. I am doing the second read. I will keep an eye for clues on this one.

          Reply
        2. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          I am reading in iron flame (chapter nine, page 73) that it’s a he that escaped resson. I believe it’s the same person (the sage). I I’ll update as I get to the later pages when they discuss the dreams

          Reply
  7. CurlsTruly Avatar
    CurlsTruly

    The Iron Flame had me in a CHOKEHOLD. I’m okay with the ending for now….My thoughts:
    No one is bringing up Varrish and why he and Caroline were so focused on bringing Jack back. Based upon the last Missive in the last chapter (Xaden’s) regarding a cure, they knew about this (people being Venim mixed) for quite sometime along with everything else if they made a serum for it. I want that explored in the 3rd book. Also when did he (Jack) turn, Vi tied it back to right before he challenged her.. Was that after the Threshing when they had the incident in the field? So many questions. I also think Cat & the Viscount could have been left out or is going to have more significance later on. Oh and where is Xaden’s mother? They put emphasis on calling out he was an only child regarding the rune from General Mairi does he have more siblings out there? What’s the significance of that rune & their relic appearing on the same side and not being energized again until the Threshing. So many questions. Ugh!

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      Brilliant questions. Also, apparently Violet manifested her signet already. So what is it? I’m hoping to discover some clues on my second read.

      Reply
      1. LF Avatar
        LF

        so what if violet´s new signet is that she gets what she needs when she needs it, slow time, see Liam while being torture as support.. Andarna sort of has the same ability she needs to hide so she is like a camaleon. What if thats the signet Violet get? a Camaleon Signet that sort of does it all?
        Also on Andarna, I need Violet to go get for her fathers investigation on fathertails. I am sure he found sth out on the new type of Dragon or their use and need to put up the Wards and that´s why Coronl Aetos questioned her on this on Forth Wing.
        Also, all this preface on each chapters on Iron Flame spoke about books from Poromiel regarding venim, I am sure that in next book we´ll be seeing Cat´s uncle again trying to negotiane a new shady deal with Violet for some books with important informacion on Venim and how that could help Xaden situation.
        Moreover, I think the Genaral Venim was not killed on forth wing and it was the same on Iron Flame, but he somehow got into Xaden´s and Violet´s dreams, it told Xaden he´d turn for love and it told her that she would destroy the wards for love. So using Xaden as the reason she would do that makes sense to manipulate her into doing sth she would not do otherwise. So again, maybe her signet is sort of doing what she needs, lifting the wards, seeing Liam, etc. An maybe somehow make Xaden turn back to normal-
        I have questions on what would Sgail do with Xden having turned. She told Violet to mind her words at the very end so she was there protecting him, but just begs the questions of what a dragon does when their rider turn into vermin, as with Jack, his dragon knew, they were bonded, but wouold they do nothing? the dragon does not die if the rider dies, so why Jack´s dragon did not take action agains a rider that´s turn venim based on envy or revenge?
        In Xaden situation, he did it for love, so I undertand Sgiel staying with Xaden. And with this situation being as it it, why not try to mend Xaden as they tried to mend Jack for moths when he turned willlingly and per pure “evil” reasons. perhaps with Xaden the melding would actually work as the reason was not greed.
        Gosh I do not know, so many new questions and so many things that I read in Iron Flame that seem like mistakes while reading them and not undertanding ut then later on ended up being an on prpuse mistake by the author: for example the mindreading in Xadens part being as her grandfather was a previous rider of Sgiel, I mean I remmeber in Forth Wing Xaden said Grandfather but then in Iron flame it was great uncle, to go back to grandfather and justify the second signet. in Forth Wing they violet though about sgiel ruthlesness when she chose her previous rider descendent, even when it was not allowed.
        I do not know I am driving myself crazy with so many things..
        I also had the crazy though of maybe Xadons dad is a vernim and that´s why somehow they want him on their side.

        Reply
        1. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          so what if violet´s new signet is that she gets what she needs when she needs it, slow time, see Liam while being torture as support.. Andarna sort of has the same ability she needs to hide so she is like a camaleon. What if thats the signet Violet get? a Camaleon Signet that sort of does it all?

          >> You might be absolutely spot on with this one. So far this is the best theory about Violet’s second signet. Especially because when she talks to Xaden about his at the end of the book, she says, let’s see what do you need and thinks about this way. Maybe it’s exactly that, when she needs answers, they come, when she needs the truth, she finds it, when she needs help, help comes.

          Also on Andarna, I need Violet to go get for her fathers investigation on fathertails. I am sure he found sth out on the new type of Dragon or their use and need to put up the Wards and that´s why Coronl Aetos questioned her on this on Forth Wing.

          >> me too! I am sure this will be in book 3 for sure!

          I have questions on what would Sgail do with Xden having turned. She told Violet to mind her words at the very end so she was there protecting him, but just begs the questions of what a dragon does when their rider turn into vermin, as with Jack, his dragon knew, they were bonded, but wouold they do nothing? the dragon does not die if the rider dies, so why Jack´s dragon did not take action agains a rider that´s turn venim based on envy or revenge?
          In Xaden situation, he did it for love, so I understand Sgiel staying with Xaden. And with this situation being as it is, why not try to mend Xaden as they tried to mend Jack for moths when he turned willlingly and per pure “evil” reasons. perhaps with Xaden the melding would actually work as the reason was not greed.

          >> I am very curious about the turning process and how the ferocious dragon will deal with this. I also think that as much as Sgayel is a bad ass, I do think she now has feelings for everyone in the link: Tairn, of course, but also Xaden and Violet. And even if not, because she is link to Tairn and knows that Violet would die without Xaden, she needs to stick around…

          >> I also have many many questions. I’m doing the second read with a pencil and I’m underlining everything to make sure I’m not missing a thing!

          Reply
          1. Paige Avatar
            Paige

            First off- love your thorough blog and thank you for all the theories!!! Both books were stellar for me- my mind is still RACING and I don’t want it to end. Fourth Wing was an even better re-read knowing information from Iron Flame.

            I think we might learn more about her first signet too. When they’re teaching her control he says it just manifests as lightening because that’s what she’s comfortable with. I think its just raw power and she can use it for whatever she needs??!!

            Second signet. I can’t find it yet.. I think it may be a signet no one has had before. I definitely think it’ll be used for good since that’s what she was disappointed with in her first. I think seeing the dead has been ruled out (by Liam being confirmed an illusion) and straight up curing venin is too on the nose. It will help but shes not able to mend a soul. Definitely noted how often Andarna said she’ll be where she’s needed-thats a clue.
            When they’re in the cave with Varrish’s dragon, Solas, (ch 54) where it says “Kiralair and Sloan fly in to use next, swept in by an unseen force”. Don’t know if that’s significant but it stuck out to me.

            Has anyone talked about the book about venin Viscount Tecarus gave them (I think Brennan has it)? WHATS IN IT? Then agree yes, her dad’s research on feathertail. Her strength is in her scribe training so she’ll be doing a lot of reading and finding/filling in holes in research.

            Also side note on it being transcribed by Jessinia- I think they both live and want to create a safe home with new values and they create a new language. Thats why Jessinia has to translate from Navarrian to the modern language. They cannot die and I won’t hear otherwise lol.

          2. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            You are most welcome. Thank you for finding me.
            Second signet -> Someone is saying something to do with her ability to read dreams or getting into dreams. I’m starting to see it, too.

            As for the beginning, I think they will win the war, hopefully unite the continent for good and create a new modern language 🙂 that’s my HOPE!

    2. Lucy Avatar
      Lucy

      Do we know Varrish’s signet? I feel like I missed this somewhere. The more I reread Im stuck on her signet beinf controlling “emotions” and “truth” its not just Xadens who has kept secrets its Tairn, Andarna, her mum, Markham… and she needs the truth / knowledge.

      With Varrish, theres definitely something significant here. Solas and Tairn have bad history with that eye. He kills people by torturing. I am thinking Caroline / Varrish = Venin. Theres a lot more than we think there are in the first stages of turning I reckon. The bullish first year assassin who killed Nadine when she said she was Vi, red ring in eyes… Colonel Aetos is connected to this whether he is venin?

      I think Jack has been brought to purely be tested on.

      Also think Xadens gonna have some half siblings!

      Also side note – what is the rune scar on Brandons hand about?! In the beginning of Iron Flame…

      Reply
      1. Cory Avatar
        Cory

        I wish I could address all your questions but I’m just doing my second re read with underlines to make sure I really understand it all properly.
        What do you think violets signet is? Based on your ideas so far? I’m thinking she can talk to the dead somehow. Because of the Liam scene.

        Reply
        1. Lucy Avatar
          Lucy

          Haha i guess book 3/4 will do that! Im here for the theories – love seeing everyones thoughts and getting me thinking again.

          Im wondering if shes gonna have some kick ass hybrid signet to be honest.

          Truth sayer seems to be hinted for me but as we mentioned before – alone its a bit meh. So some enhancement of this maybe. Theres a lot of emphasis on “emotions” and fire is mentioned too! when shes with Xaden… also her shields with the “blocks”. Theres a few avenues at the moment. They aren’t the usual rider dragon pairing though so it should definitely be something ultra rare. Im focusing on her time with Xaden for hints because this is where we saw the lightning come out so could it be fire or controlling emotions? I’ll keep reading for my final thoughts…

          With Varrish his signet I think is definitely something to do with the mind / knowing things he shouldn’t – he is Dains mentor for training the signet which is mentioned in the interrogation section… also he seems to sense things he shouldn’t know… and the 2 interrogators are “lie detectors” is this a coincidence?…

          I like your thoughts on seeing the “dead” this could definitely fit too in to the signet.

          Reply
          1. Lucy Avatar
            Lucy

            Ah so Varrish sees “weaknesses” in stead of the person – glad i found that it was wracking my brain!

          2. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            So I’m only at chapter 3 right now, I’m using a pencil to underline literally every bit of info that’s relevant for theories and wiki. So I am lagging behind royally with my second re-read.

      2. Tiffani Avatar
        Tiffani

        Varrish signet was something with “weakness”, reading in people and it being a great advantage for battle which is why interrogation was his specialty. He couldn’t read hers because she was taught very well how to Shield. So does that make Varrish a form of an inntinnsec as well? If so, maybe they started killing them when they realized it could also work against them….

        Reply
        1. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          He might be a form of inntinnsic yes. He sees people’s weaknesses, which is an insane ability.

          Reply
  8. K Avatar
    K

    Something has been bothering me. I am REALLY hoping for a Violet-Xaden happily ever after at the end of all this. BUT, the quotes at the beginning of the chapters. There are several that say something like “by Jesinia Neilwort from the recovered letters of Xaden Riorsen to Violet Sorrengail”. Does that mean they both have to die to fix everything in the end? I’m not sure I could ever be ok with that type of ending.

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      I am sure this is just to scare us…

      Reply
  9. BirdSetFree Avatar
    BirdSetFree

    Rando Thoughts:

    1. IF quality. IF wasn’t as well-written, well-developed or edited as FW. It was disjointed in areas and seemed to fast-forward in places I wished were more fully expounded upon. OK, I said it. And, I loved it all the same–the good, bad and unforgivable. In interviews, RY said she was panic-writing IF to make a deadline and it shows. Also, RY said so much edited out and put into book 3. No pressure, RY, but our expectations are high for Book 3.

    2. Dain–I’ve never been on the Dain hate train. I think he is a Mr. Darcy character. He is so uptight in FW, but he wasn’t wrong about X wanting to kill her and exact revenge on Gen. Sorrengail. In IF we find out that X did indeed have a maybe-I’ll-kill-her-maybe-I won’t attitude about Violet in the beginning. Dain was determined to get her out of the Riders Quad to protect her from X. Dain has been a true friend to Violet even if it didn’t seem like it at times. In FW, Violet said that Dain was there, supporting her when her dad and brother died, and kept her together when Mira went to the RQ. He saved her from Verrish; he joined the revolution and is following X; He didn’t put the codex above others’ suffering; he had an epiphany about his father which rocks his whole world; he’s using his knowledge and talent to translate the documents to raise the wards and save Aretia; he will be there for Violet to lean on if/when things go to shit with X, and we know they will.

    3. Violet’s second signet. According to RY, she has already manifested it. I’m Just starting my reread and I’ll be looking for it. There are hints all over, I’m sure. Initially, I thought her second signet was that she is “unbreakable” and I’m not talking physically. Not all strength is physical (Kaori). She didn’t break in the torture chamber, she says to X a few times, “You won’t break me.” But after reading others’ theories, getting what she needs at the time she needs it sounds more “right.” Reminds me of the Room of Requirement in Harry Potter? But she wasn’t connected to her dragons in the torture chamber–so that makes me pause on both fronts of unbreakable and talking with the dead. She was magically cut off from her dragons.

    4. Xaden’s second signet. I didn’t want him to be a mind reader, even though it was so obvious on the page. So many little slips on all the pages of FW and IF. And it also reveals that he shadows can bring info back to him and are a sensory extension of himself.

    5. Liam. I think he is dead-dead but that he is her protector always–in life and in death. I think he will show up later as Violet’s “spirit animal” when she needs help to be “unbreakable.” I found it so heartbreaking and uplifting that he was the presence/apparition that kept her grounded while she was having a mental break with reality–sounds like Fen Riorson’s experience just before he was executed, maybe? Except that Dain saved Violet then X swooped in and executed everyone else.

    IF left me reeling, emotionally distraught and hopelessly needing more. I’m still not over the ending with X turning to Violet so she can see his eyes with red rings. So many, many times she comments on his gold-flecked onyx eyes, that those eyes are her favorite part of him; she’s memorized them, etc. She looks into his eyes… “no.” In my mind’s eye, I see X with stricken terror on his face… Then it skips to X’s dream waking up next to Violet–so much angst and heartbreak and confusion (damn, Rebecca. Just damn. Then skipping to see Jack-fkn-Barlowe– ick.

    sorry so long–

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      Never too long. I love reading long comments because it shows what an impact this book has.
      I think you are right, IR was not as good as FW. But I still think it was an incredible book.
      To your point number 3. I also think it’s like the room of requirements a little. And yes, she wasn’t connected to her dragons so why indeed, did she manage to visualise Liam?

      Reply
  10. Lucy Avatar
    Lucy

    Done with my second read… I’m leaning heavily towards an “information” signet as she states on page 544 “i am a person who needs information to centre myself” … – after learning of Xadens second signet – to do with truth which is referenced throughout the book through Nora (truth sayer) and the epigraph saying they are more dangerous than an inntinnsic “we let them live”.

    My theory is she has an inntinnsic information signet relating to being able to gain knowledge and decipher if its truth which will tie in with her being able to find the “information” on how to mend souls (using brennans signet perhaps) / turn venin back and she will be able to use her signet to learn some truths / information about dragon kind as they are keeping secrets of their own. That would be pretty badass for me.

    “Heart of a rider and the Mind of a scribe” mentioned twice that I noted and I think this is a reference as it connects to the knowledge and is one of the characters who says this and she states she picked her for being “different”.

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      So far there are two diving theories on this one. 1. to do with the truth indeed. Something related to her being able to see the truth and find information. 2. Distance wielder.

      I thought maybe talking to the dead but I am doubting this now as during ther torture she was clearly under the influence of that drug. So she had no access to her dragons.

      Reply
    2. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      Also Lucy, check this out: https://www.empyreanriders.com/articles/iron-flame-verdict-was-the-xaden-is-inntinnsic-theory-proven-or-disproven/#comment-576
      Some very interesting points!

      Reply
      1. Lucy Avatar
        Lucy

        Ooh yes very interesting!

        I also liked the chameleon theory above but its not to do with Vi’s core thats more surrounding Andarna… which we know the signet is from the rider not the dragon.

        I think i now need to reread FW 🤣

        Reply
        1. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          Funny you should say that…I have it open and reading paragraphs at the same time. Details about the unifications and the timeline…

          Reply
          1. K Avatar
            K

            I’m looking forward to your unification timeline thoughts. If I’m remembering correctly (b/c I’m horrible at going back and finding correct pages for things), andarna waited 650 years to hatch but unification was 628 years ago so the dragons (or at least andarna or her parent(s)) knew something quite a while before unification and from the battle at the end of IF the dragons clearly knew andarna was the 7th breed. I have so may other thoughts/theories too but am waiting for your theories to pop up here to sort through everything. Too many thoughts still spinning in my head to make sense of them yet.

          2. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            That’s exactly it! I wrote a little about it here -> https://www.empyreanriders.com/articles/iron-flame-theory-andarna-knows-how-to-kill-venin
            But it feels to me that some elders might have been able to predict the future. Otherwise, why leave Andarna behind before even the first War. It feels like the 7th breed was used to create the first wards, and left her as a hatchling-in-waiting somehow. Also, they LEFT her behind. I don’t understand what that means. It feels like they are still somewhere else. Like on an isle or somewhere?!

  11. Bobbi Avatar
    Bobbi

    What about Josephine Langford (5’6”) as Violet and Ross Butler (6’3”) as Xaden… thoughts?

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      Someone else mentioned Josephine Langford. I can add her to the list if you think. I love Ross Butler, but I see him as Ridoc weirdly enough. I don’t know why, it’s how I’ve envisioned him from the start.

      Reply
      1. Lucy Avatar
        Lucy

        I can see this 👍

        Reply
    2. CurlsTruly Avatar
      CurlsTruly

      Hmmmm RY specifically references him as POC having tawny skin, which could be for a wide variety of ethnicities. I’m very curious of who will be cast. I wish Jason Momoa was younger bc he definitely could have been (my) Xaden 😉

      Reply
      1. Cory Avatar
        Cory

        I am with you on that… A younger Jason Momoa (brb googling this)

        Reply
  12. Cory Avatar
    Cory

    Alright, my first theory is out: https://www.empyreanriders.com/articles/iron-flame-theory-andarna-knows-how-to-kill-venin

    I think there is something ODD going on:
    1. How did the 7th breed know that Andarna needs to wait?
    2. What do you mean she was LEFT BEHIND?
    3. Errr…she heard a lot more than being told that she needs to breath fire, I’m sure.
    4. Excuse me, how the hell did Andarna know about Violet’s future?
    5. WHO IS THE GENERAL?

    I hope the article makes some sense…

    I have a loooong list of about 15 theories so far and I’m working hard to write them all. So please bear with me (it’s just one of me!) but I’m trying to be as fast as I can!

    Reply
  13. Sanita Avatar
    Sanita

    About Violets second signet.

    I didnt manage to read all the comments. But.. Like, her mother needed Sloane to put power in the wardstone. Violet did it directly. Isnt that the answer, that she can do the same as the previous Tairn’s rider?
    I dont understand.. things.. 😀

    Also, if she can do the same as the previous Tairn’s rider, doesnt it mean, that she can restore the balance, which is, the power taken from ground has to be returned to the ground.

    Only problem here is that …. it is … probably an enorm amount of power needed for such.

    So, to restore the balance, she might need to use the power from the wardstone. Aka – they will put wardstone’s power into the ground through Xaden to fix the imbalance he made. And that “uncorrupts” his soul.

    Nature likes everything in balance.

    Anyway. What I am waiting for is what binds it all together. Balance, nature, good and evil, etc.

    Dragons, Humans, Gryphons.

    Humans screwed up. They made a mess when bonding and starting to use magic/power. This kind of answer is what I am waiting for. The evil – the greed for power – it is never gonna be over. We cannot wipe out Venin – since humans will never stop being greedy. Balance has to be there as well. Just.. how…
    Also… what was really the first.. was the first venon really after first bonds between Dragons-Humans, Gryphons-Humans, or… was is actually a need, because someone had already pulled from the source, aka, the Venin was the first? And the bonding was the response?

    I dont think Liam comes back as Venin or anything like that. Maybe just in Violets imagination, like when turtored.Maybe dreams, maybe a ghost… But dead is dead. Not like Jack, who was venin before death.

    Also, Violets connection with Venin might be because of the poison. I dont remember now if Xaden saw dreams, of had simply talked to the Venin and then the thing about him turning for love was mentioned.

    I am waiting for the books now. Have only listened to audiobook, so it is really hard to find where what was 😀

    Ok. Lets hope for the best. And I will hope for tidier, less rushed next book 🙂

    oooh, before I go, Cory, Maybe you would like to make a discord server just for the ones in this blog?

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      You mean that Violet could be a siphon? It could be, of course…
      As for the question about who was first, bonded or the venin, I suppose if you are to believe the folklore it was at the same time. But we do not have a real answer.
      According to the fables of the barren, there were three brothers. One who bonded a dragon, one who bonded the gryphon and one who got jealous and drew directly from the ground. But in Iron Flame we do learn indeed that humans approached the dens when in trouble. So it could be that venin was a threat first.
      I am also doubting that Liam will be coming back.
      I think Violet’s connection to venin has to do with several things: 1. the fact that she was touched by venin one way or another, because she has silver hair tips and weak joints. 2. because there is some history there.

      Reply
  14. Nate Avatar
    Nate

    Just a matter of curiosity to me – A big deal was made of Naolin, and I don’t think we’ve heard the last of him.

    1) Tairn refuses to talk about him. Tarin empathetically stated Naolin would not be discussed.

    2) Brennan states that Naolin gave -everything- (this word was italicized for emphasis).

    3) Burning question – Naolin was not a mender. His stated signet power is a siphon – so what was he doing/did to try to heal a soul?

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      1. You are right. We don’t know more about Naolin. Which is..odd.
      2. I wonder if Naolin did turn venin at the end.
      3. Wait, where is this info? I cannot find it in the second book. Do you have a page for me please? To look into it.

      Reply
      1. Iris Avatar
        Iris

        I don’t know the page/chapter because I’m listening to the audiobook but I think Brennan said the ‘he gave everything ‘ when she was asking him questions after the assembly meeting she watched/was spying on with Imogen and Garrick (I think it was Garrick and not Bodhi but I might have that wrong) after she first woke up and was wondering at the beauty of the Riaoson House compared to the war college. It also seemed that it was said and then Tarin said ‘we will not discuss him’ within seconds of Brennan saying the everything comment and Vi wondering what that could mean and what Naolin may have been to Brennan for him to give ‘everything’ to mend him. —> Maybe tiny foreshadowing for Vi wanting to give everything to mend Xaden? With the twist being Vi is strong enough to survive it? Also is there ever any crossing/mixing/combining usage possiblity with having two signets? But as we only have Xaden and Vi having two signets that info may only be something they could figure out. But as someone with a physical chronic illness that is linked to hypermobility myself, my brain keeps going back to the fact that in the book the professor Kaori saying no all power is physical and then combined with the huge significance of RY’s dedication (which may only be noticable if you are a ‘zebra’ aka chronically ill but a term the EDS community uses especially because medical doctors are taught to believe ‘if you hear hoof beats think horses NOT zebras’ as a rule with horses referencing the common conditions/obvious reasons not the rare and hard to prove conditions like EDS). RY’s dedication stating that power is not always physical (as well as putting into the book) makes me wonder if Violet may eventually be able to channel a combination of her signets and that it may mean by having two signets she can cross the ‘nature in balance’ line of her physical limits to channel both dragons power.

        Reply
        1. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          I would love it if she would be able to cross that boundary and channel from both her dragons at the same time. That would indeed be a beautiful theory for when probably Xaden will inevitably die, and Violet needs to revive him / save him, much like Naolin did with Brennan. I love your theory a lot.

          Reply
  15. Kat Avatar
    Kat

    I love these theories and after reading all these comments I’m on my second read (audio) of FW and making notes before I tackle IF for the second time. Found some info on the father , maybe a clue to when here second signet manifested in IF, based on FW comparison and hoping to pick up some stuff I missed. I wish I had a reading version and not the audiobook, but audio version is the only way for me now, due to my hectic life (need to multitask).

    I feel like I need to read Yarros other books to get a better grasp on her writing style so I can better analyze these books.

    So many theories I’ve thought of or agreed with others, but until I have the info I won’t give out any more hopeful theories.

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      My fav theory right now is about Violet’s dad. That’s what I’m looking for. And of course, Violet’s second signet. Super excited about that.

      Reply
      1. Sanita Avatar
        Sanita

        Oooooh s#!+…. You can commend the sky to surrender all its power. Lightning. Siphoning. Isnt it.. isnt it…. the answer?

        Reply
        1. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          Oooh it could be. I took it as she is the literal opposite to venin who take the power from the ground.

          Reply
  16. Sanita Avatar
    Sanita

    “You will turn for love”

    Maybe it was Naolin, the sage? Think we talked about this before.

    What did Tairn mean “general recognises another general”?

    Naolin couldnt accept his limitations, as said in the book 1. He didnt burn out, he turned…to save Brennan? Just like Xaden for Violet. For love.

    Also this would go along with Brennan Naolin theory.

    And yes, siphon for Violet. She wanted signet to do good in the world. And if Naolin was using his signet for healing… this would be the twist in Violets little fable as she wished. Also, the thing I said – her mother couldnt put the power in the wardstone without Sloan’s help. Violet could do it herself. Not like normally when it takes weeks and huge amont of riders, no, directly a lot of power right into the stone.

    Idk. I think I make sense here 😀

    Good job Rebecca, we have a lot to think about and discuss xD

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      I think it’s inntinnsic or truth sayer for Violet. Altho my friend screams that Violet is going to somehow have access to all her signets or be able to amplify everyone’s signets because she wants the one who she loves to succeed and live.
      Naolin being the sage (the general) could make a lot of sense indeed. I like where you are going with it. Darn, I just published my theory as to why I think Violet’s dad is the general but now you’re making me doubt it 😀

      Reply
      1. Sanita Avatar
        Sanita

        Sorry about that xD

        Anyway. I have missed info on the truth sayer. But seems way too boring for Violet in my eyes. Even though. Yes. She has had a huge issue with knowing whom to trust. I still though hope her second signet is coller than that xD

        Reply
        1. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          I feel the same way. Truth sayer would be too boring for me too.

          Reply
  17. K Avatar
    K

    I’m on the Naolin turned to save Brennan train, similar to Xaden for Violet, whether intentional or not (maybe subconscious?) Which would mean Naolin is not actually “dead” in the full sense but his bond with Tairn is severed somehow. Sgaeyl it seems is still bonded to Xaden (though Xaden does say she’s been quiet since the battle) and Baide was (we think) to Jack but kept the secret (according to Tairn) so it seems like dragons can keep their bonds with riders turned venin, at least to a point? And, if the Naolin theory is true, we now have Sgaeyl with a partial venin rider and Tairn whose previous rider turned venin which would mean he severed the bond. So what’s really going on?

    Reply
    1. Cory Avatar
      Cory

      This is the only thing that makes me feel really weird about Naolin being venin. Because that would mean Tairn would still be connected to Naolin (in venin format). Given that indeed, Sgaeyl is still connected to Xaden. Or at least this is what we assume. Would this mean that when Tairn saw Naolin at Resson and said “a general can recognise another general” was just Tairn’s way of saying, “Yeah that was my rider, I can sense him still?”. Is that why losing Naolin almost killed Tairn? Because he turned venin?
      We know that Sgaeyl reached out to Violet and told her, “You fought well today”. Was that through their four way path, or Sgaeyl just talked to her because she’s mated to Tairn? So, is Xaden still connected to his dragon?

      I feel there are too many implications. If dragons are still bonded to venin, dragons would have access to vital information. But I guess, according to their own law, they can’t break the bond with their riders and share information outside of it? It’s considered a breach. But mating bonds and protecting their own hatchlings overrides all of it, so indeed, how did Baide keep it a secret?

      I’m just throwing questions at you, not sure if I have answers.

      Reply
      1. K Avatar
        K

        That’s OK. I think the only way we figure out the answers is if we ask enough questions, we just have to figure out what the correct questions are to ask, which sounds eerily similar to the book 😛 Anyways, additional thoughts on this below, and it wanders around quite a bit on and off topic as I think through it. Please poke holes in it. I REALLY hope I’m wrong about some of it.

        Part of me wonders if Jack was actually ever bonded to Baide. The way Tairn says Baide kept jack being venin a secret, it sounds like jack and baide were bonded, but then in the wardstone chamber, jack had done something to baide b/c baide had black eyes – same poison violet was struck with in fourth wing maybe since her blood turned black? If so, Brennan knows the cure for that part and Brennan has the venin book from Tecarus. And stretching here again b/c I just thought of this and am making assumptions, back to Naolin and a really scary thought. Naolin was a siphon, a siphon who supposedly died saving Brennan. What if Naolin reached for the ground, similar to Xaden, and drew power from it BUT because he was a siphon, instead of turning him into a venin it turned Brennan into a venin instead and still burned out Naolin? Brennan has that rune on his wrist that no one knows what it means nor is it really mentioned much, but it’s got to be a piece of the puzzle. Perhaps the rune keeps the venin in him at bay? But then, this falls apart when you see him mend Violet and mend the wardstone. He couldn’t have drawn power from the chamber around the stone to mend it, I’m fairly certain Violet would have noticed if the ground was the wrong color, especially after what had happened in there earlier. I think the narrative even counted the number of stones Jack turned white, so it wasn’t the whole chamber.

        I wonder if becoming venin does sever the bond between rider and dragon, or maybe it gets weaker over time the farther turned you go? Whether still bonded or not, after Xaden drew the initial power, Sgaeyl was still protecting him in the aftermath and Sgaeyl could still talk to Violet and Violet could feel Xaden, so still bonded or not, Sgaeyl still cares about Xaden (and possibly Violet in more than the all 4 are intertwined way) and both Xaden and Sgaeyl still matter in all of this. Xaden says he killed the general, but HOW did he kill the general? There’s nothing in the book that says he used a dagger. Was it the sheer energy pulled from the earth that can overpower them? I don’t have Fourth Wing in front of me, but didn’t Violet kill the one Venin with lightning in Fourth Wing or was it just the Wyvern? Reddit is having the same “what is Violet’s second signet?” discussion that we’re having here. Someone had a real well thought out theory using basic physics (and remember physics is one of the classes they take at Basgiath that isn’t Violet’s best class) that her second signet is she can control the sun/energy, and some of the comments pick up on this same thing that makes a lot of sense and it really made me think. In Iron Flame when Felix is teaching her to control her power and gives her the conduit, he tells her lightning is just the form of energy she’s most comfortable with. Basically, I’m wondering, lightning isn’t her first signer and the sun isn’t her second signet, her first signet is to control energy – all kinds, all forms. So, forgetting the second signet for a minute, lightning, gravity, sun, signet amplification, I think Felix also tells Violet she can wield Xaden – Violet controls energy. She can take it, she can use it, she can make it do what she wants, and maybe it means she can put it back to regenerate magic into the ground? Would this also mean she could take it from the ground and NOT become venin? Also, if she can learn to control it and direct it to where she wants it to go, she could kill any venin she wanted from wherever she wanted (maybe the reason the venin are so interested in her and want to control Xaden to get to her b/c he’ll be the only thing she’s willing to give it all up for?). Since she can control all energy, that means she may be able to control others’ signets or at least amplify them by enhancing their energy – for example Rhiannon being able to summon the dagger through the wall, Mira being able to shield outside the wards, etc. That may be why the venin want her. She’s the only thing that could take them all out and it’s entirely possible by taking them all out that triggers something that sends the magic back into the earth, maybe even regenerating the Barrens? It seems far fetched but if Yarros decides to go fully HEA here, it’s got to be something like defeat venin, restore nature’s balance (maybe that means no more wards so flyers and riders can wield anywhere or maybe no more magic period, but that seems like a stretch given the genre). There has to be a nature likes balance and her light to Xadens dark component I’m missing here. The “cure” for the venin may very well be take down the wards and get rid of all magic, which this is a fantasy genre, so that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense either.

        There’s also the Andarna was left behind thing. I don’t think it said she was the last, just the eldest of her den and we know dragon hatching grounds were originally scattered throughout the continent. What if Andarna’s hatching grounds were the Barrens and she is needed to restore the magic there? Also possible her kind left her in the Vale and the rest escaped back to the Isles, which could also be her type’s original hatching grounds. The Isles are the place we haven’t heard much about yet so that has to be coming and be another piece of the puzzle. I find it hard to believe Andarna’s only purpose was to power the ward at Basgiath. There’s a reason there’s only one of her kind that we know about yet. There has to be a key there for taking down the venin. During the battle at Basgiath, she took one of their heads off and nothing indicated the venin came back to life. If she could do that, why couldn’t/haven’t the other types dragons? Is it something special about her type of dragon that can do that? And if so, why did the rest desert the continent 600+ years ago in its time of need? I’ve also had the thought that Tairn get sacrificed in here somehow and part of the reason Violet has 2 dragons is Tairn makes the sacrifice but Violet gets to live b/c of being bonded to Andarna. It’s possible this goes the other way around with Andarna being sacrificial too, which makes more sense with the other 4’s bonds being intertwined. jack took down the wards with dragon’s blood and the venin tells Violet she’ll take down the wards for love. I really hope one of her dragons isn’t the sacrifice to do this, but . . .

        One last Violet second signet thought. If we go with the first signet is controls all types of energy thought, the second one is then completely different. There are enough times she and Xaden are so wrapped in each other’s minds and possibly dreams, is she another type of intinnsic? I know Tairn and Sgaeyl have strong bonds and Xaden is intinnsic, but even Xaden seemed surprised/uncomfortable with how intense that throne room scene was. Since none, except for Xaden, have been allowed to live, how many types are there really? Can she control other’s thoughts – including dragons? There’s a reason Codagh let her talk to him.

        Reply
        1. Cory Avatar
          Cory

          This has been so exciting to read and think about. Right, here goes:

          Jack and Baide’s Secret: You’re onto something big with Jack and Baide. Keeping Jack’s venin status hush-hush? There’s definitely more to that story. And those black eyes – maybe a clue about that poison thing you mentioned? On the bright side, I think we can now recognise dragons in trouble.

          Naolin’s Twist: Your idea about Naolin accidentally turning Brennan into a venin is a proper brain-teaser. I mean I can see it, but I don’t want it haha. We know so little of Naolin it almost drives me insane. I know we will get more in book 3 but I was hoping for more now! And that rune on Brennan’s wrist – it’s got to mean something, right? It’s actually possible Brennan is venin and that’s why he’s so upset with Dad…maybe because he now recognises that dad was venin too.

          Rider-Dragon Bonds: You’re wondering if turning venin messes up the bond between rider and dragon. I think venins can start controlling their dragon, until eventually the dragons somehow dies? I keep going back to Jack and Baide and Varrish and Solas. BTW, I think Varrish was venin and he had influencer over Solas somehow.

          Xaden’s Mystery and Violet’s Power: How did Xaden defeat the general? I don’t actually think he did either. I think that General (in ROYAL BLUE) will come back without an issue. Which worries me because…will Andarna have the tool to end him for good?

          Andarna’s Role and the Magic Fix: You’ve got a great point about Andarna. Why is she the only one of her kind? She’s got to be key to fixing the magic in the Barrens. And if it’s not her, I think it might be Violet. She can imbue magic into items devoid of magic, right? So what’s not to say she can imbue the Barrens?

          Sacrifice and Big Decisions: The idea of a sacrifice, maybe Tairn or Andarna, is pretty intense. And I really really hope you are way off here because the thought of losing either of them it’s literally killing me. With all due respect, I’d rather lose Xaden, ok? The dragons, no no NO!

          Violet’s Secret Power: Now, about Violet’s second signet – you’re thinking it’s something to do with controlling minds, even dragons’. That’s a wild and awesome guess! It would make Violet super powerful and really shake things up in the story. I finally wrote my thoughts about it here -> https://www.empyreanriders.com/articles/iron-flame-theory-violets-second-signet/ There are many options, and I’m still to add the dream walker theory in there but overall…we need more clues 🙁

          Your ideas are fantastic! They make the story way more exciting! And I think I’m panicking a bit now, because we have no info on when the book 3 will be out…

          Reply
          1. K Avatar
            K

            I happened upon an entertainment weekly book club interview with Rebecca yarros. It’s 34min long. She answers a few of these questions on the interview. Basically if someone is dead, they’re dead IF she didn’t already set the stage for being venin. So Mr sorrengail is in fact dead and not venin. I think she said risers stay bonded to dragons when they turn venin. Book 3 gets into the whole stages of venin thing, etc. It was helpful . . . And not 😛 . . .but at least eliminated some of the probabilities

          2. Cory Avatar
            Cory

            Listening to it now. I’m finalising my Iron Flame QA article and I need to see what she says to see if there are more details we can find in there.

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Hello! This site is dedicated to the Empyrean Series by Rebecca Yarros. I’ve made this place to explore the rich world of Empyrean, full of characters, theories, and places. Each post is carefully researched and updated with the newest details from the series. This site is also a great spot for discussing theories about the Empyrean Series. 🐉
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