Iron Flame Theory: Does Violet have venin in her? Or is she immune to venin?

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Written by: Cory

Iron Flame theory: is Violet immune to venin?

Please proceed with caution as there are some serious spoilers ahead. We’ve all been toying with this idea that Violet is part venin, or immune to venin somehow. Since this is coming up in the comments section a lot, I decided to try and make sense of it by writing my theory.

I will talk about her hair, her brittle bones and of course, her mother, Lilith. There is actually quite a lot that suggests Violet has somehow been drained by venin before, one way or another.

Alright, let’s get started and see where we’re at first.

Lilith’s pregnancy

“Pale skin, pale eyes, pale hair.” Her gaze siphons every ounce of my confidence down to the marrow in my bones. It’s like that fever stole all your coloring along with your strength.


“It’s not the first time I’ve heard her curse the sickness that nearly killed her while she was pregnant with.”

The above is in Fourth Wing chapter 1, if you want to go back and re-read it. So it was during Lilith’s pregnancy that “the fever” affected Violet. As Lilith herself spelled it out for us, the fever stole the coloring and her strength.

Violet’s fragility

We know all about it and I’m sure you don’t me to quote it. It’s when she needs to wrap her knees, how her bones snap so fast, how she’s not built like the rest of them. But what does this have to do with venin? I’m so glad you asked.

The Barrens

Let’s turn to the barrens and look at what happened there. We know that venin live there, and they drained the magic from the land. The land is now well, a barren. A desert, devoid of life and color according to Violet.

Interesting…now let’s look at Violet’s hair. Violet’s hair is like this “the brown strands start to lose their warmth of color and slowly fade to a steely, metallic silver“. She even tells us that no matter the length, this always happens, her hair always has those tips.

Violet has been drained…but how?

Her brittle bones and hair condition do tell me that Violet has been drained by venin. But how and when? There are a few ideas we can turn to here.

Lilith drained her

Her mother was venin but still wanted to protect her children at all cost. It’s not an unlikely scenario if you think about it. Lilith did talk to no other than Nolon. Do you remember? The missive at the end of Iron Flame? Sent to Nolon when he had lower military rank? I think it was all to do with her, being turned venin. Ok, so what does this mean?

Again, two scenarios here. Either Lilith turned venin at some point, and during pregnancy she accidentally drained Violet. OR Lilith was attacked during pregnancy and near death, she reached, to save herself and her child, turned venin and drained some of the strength from Violet.

Another venin drained her

Another option is that Lilith was attacked while pregnant. The venin tried to drain her but drained the baby first, giving Lilith time to reach, turn venin and defeat the attacker.

Is Violet immune?

I think so. I think Violet is immune, and there are a couple of explanations for it. I’m not sure where Rebecca Yarros is going with it, but I’m certain Violet cannot be drained further.

In Iron Flame, we learn about something vital. Crucial, information really:

“You quarried the stones from east of the Dunness River, the land that borders the Barrens. It had already been drained of its magic”.

This clearly means that once drained, venin cannot touch it again. It’s “immune” to them.

What is Violet most afraid of? Losing the ones she loves. She has nightmares about Resson how Soleil and Fuil were drained in an instant. She starts running to avoid this fate herself. She has nightmares about Tairn being caught surprised. She runs…

But what Violet doesn’t know yet, is that she cannot be drained further. She’s already suffered that fate once.

Is Violet venin then?

Not really. I think she’s immune to venin, but she doesn’t have venin in her. It’s not a virus or an illness. At least that’s not how it appears to be. It looks like you can “catch it” or transfer it. Which makes it believe that Violet didn’t get “a bit of venin” while Lilith was pregnant with her. She was simply drained, which gave her something greater: immunity.

People turn venin for power, right? Or in Xaden’s case…for love. So Violet really is the best weapon against venin as she can face them without the same fears.She just doesn’t know it YET.

I’m going to leave you with something else here. Which is on repeat in my mind and can’t quite make sense of it for now.

Fourth Wing Chapter 37, Page 475

“But it was the third brother, who commanded the sky to surrender its greatest power[..].”

Fourth Wing Chapter 37, Page 476

“[…]You could command the sky to surrender all its power, and I bet you don’t know what to do with it, do you?”

Is Violet…the third brother? She is technically the third sibling, is she not? Hmmm…food for thought, food for thought.

I cannot wait to hear what you think about Violet being immune to venin? Am I on the right track do you reckon? Let me know in the comments section below!

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53 responses to “Iron Flame Theory: Does Violet have venin in her? Or is she immune to venin?”

  1. I think Violet’s “fragility” is due to her having Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, the same medical condition that Rebecca Yarros herself has.

    1. Yes, but in the book, there is a reason why she has this. RY herself said that her hair is the way it is for a reason.

  2. I agree with you and also I am wondering about the comment about the three brothers. I thought I remembered them being three kings/brothers and the third brother killed the other two and took the power. I was wondering if he was the first venin, perhaps he took the power from an iridescent feather tail like andarna.

    1. Exactly! I feel that the comment with the three brothers is suuuuuuper important.
      Also, Alie! OMG I haven’t considered that one of the brothers has stolen power from the seventh breed. That would be a good twist.

  3. Hiiii^^/ its me again xD

    So where to start… i am currently listening to Book 2 for the… (I honestly lost count xD) time … and one thought bugs me the whole time… WHAT if… she doesn’t have Venin stuff in her DNA… but… Nah I’ll explain first… (and behold… its gettin very… wild and my… thoughts fit somehow in this theory)

    So we know now, thx to book 2 that there is a 7th species of dragons… And especially Andarna is able to… shapeshift? (hence the tail… like morningstar tail after her first change and then the scorpion thingy tail later against Solas) AND we know that these dragons.. vanished… somehow… (maybe all dead or whatever) and Andarna is technically older than some of the elders… (what was it… like 600 years in that egg?) So.. what if… some of these dragons became THAT close to their humans. that they somehow managed to shapeshift into some… and… well.. did things… yk xD so…

    so my thought was… what IF Vi doesn’t have some gods blood or venin blood in herself…. but maybe dragonsblood… because what bugged me this whole time was that first day with the new rookies… when Solas burned down many people… she got F ing Lavaon her back…. Dragonscales MAY be fireproof AND heatresistant… but to my knowledge they don’t shield from heat… and molten lava has temperatures like 700 – 1200°c Like HOT… and she got only what… a slight Burnmark like a bad sunburn? Don’t get me wrong MAYBE the scales in this universe shield some heat but… this kinda bugged me…. and theres another thing… Dragons seem to… respect her? like she spoke to many of them directly… (threshing… the presentation… whilest battle etc…and maybe the two green dragons didn’t just sniffed her becaise of her vest…… ) And come to think about it… Violets hair is white/silver on the end. not on the beginning… so what got me thinking was… what if the dragonsblood caused her Body to… yk age TOO fast… like… think about it what Teirn said about Andarna… she was forced to grow fast… because too much energy use…. (ahhh my thoughts are spinning but… ahhh) but I think u get what i am tying to say…

    I know that there is the thing why Mira and Brennan don’t have these kinda things but I know we discussed IF they are even blood related siblings…

    whoo… a LOT of text… and i hope that u all can understand what my brain is braining about xD

    1. Hi Kuro, welcome back.
      Alright, first of all wild theory and LOVE it.
      A few issues I will address tho, so let’s start there.
      1. Andarna didn’t have a morningstar tail.

      ““If there’s a morningstartail on her—”
      “Tails are a matter of choice and need.” He huffs indignantly. “Don’t they teach you anything?”

      Her tail went to becoming scorpiontail during the attack only. Am I missing something?

      She is older because she managed to stay put in her egg. She knows things others don’t. That’s clear and that’s 1000% right.

      Let’s address Violet and her potential dragonblood. I do think dragons have to respect her because of who she is. Could be that she is related to dragons somehow. But I doubt it.
      She survived because of her cool dragonscale vest from Mira. At least that’s what I thought. Again, I need to go back and read the chapter again to be sure.
      Don’t get me wrong, I love the theory and would LOVE for Violet to have dragonblood in her somehow. It would be this very epic. But I’m not finding enough evidence yet. Hmmm….

      I do fully understand where you are going with this. That would change the direction of the story A LOT!
      The only thing is that Violet tells Tairn “your species is not exactly open”. They are an entirely different species, they are not even remotely human.

      I’m curious what else you’ll discover moving forward. Also, is the audiobook cool to listen to?

      1. Heyyyy xD

        Its the german audiobook and YES the woman who reads these books does a VERY epic job. (thats maybe why I didn`t notice Baides gender change xD maybe they noticed during translation) So about the tail… (I’m gonna listen to that part again… maybe the translation got something wrong xD I just looked in the original and… Yep it says what u said…) BUT it is still a mystery wthat happened to the 7th species… and as far as we know at least Andarna is able to change her appearance. AND she was… left behind? for some reason we don’t know…

        And Yes dragons are … not very talkactive… BUT what if the 7th species was… and the Empyrean whas NOT happy…

        So whatever Yarros has in her pocket for Onyx Storm… I AM THRILLED and yes I’ll loook forward for more theories… more things to discover and…. I also will look for more … scales xD that somehow fit into this dragon theory (tbh it was a little spark of… WHAT if… and i just collected some fitting pieces…and some how they made some sense yk…)

        (And its only me who noticed that the titles of the book KINDA summarize the Plot? Or at least whats the main goal is? Fourth wing…. Violet gets into the Fourth wing…. iron flame: the wardstone is about to be covered in an Iron flame… )

        1. The titles of the book def summarize the book, I agree. Please please share your theories here. I LOVE hearing them. Well, reading them in this case 😀
          I tried to listen to the book in English, but I didn’t connect with the voice. However, there are times I wish I could just plug in and listen…it sounds like being read a beautiful story

        2. P.S. you are right. I have no idea why Andarna was left behind. but if you pay close attention, you can see that there are dragons beyond the continent. So I bet Andarna’s fam is there. Tairn even referred to Codagh as the biggest on the continent? Or something like that? There are MORE dragons beyond the continent, on the isles. I BET!

          1. I just looked up the english audiobook and… holy… i TOTALLY understand why u couldn’t connect with her voice… the german version is just calmer? softer… but in tense situations just perfect and the xaden chapters in each book… the male voice is one of my most favourite reading voices. so yes I love this page and will definetly share more of my thougts

          2. haha I’m glad you checked it. It really wasn’t my jam 😛

          3. I think in Iron Flame its kinda implied that Andarna may have been left behind as a safeguard against failing wards. The ones who raised the wards orignally knew that in the future wards may need to be raised again, so left an egg from the ONE (7th) type needed for full strength wards. Unclear to me is why the egg was left behind and where all the 7th type of dragons went. If it says in IF, i dont remember.

          4. It does not say. My guess? They are on the isles. That’s what I think…

    2. I think the armor helped to not burn her but mostly because venin don’t die with dragon fire. Not that Violet is venin but if she was drained during Lilith pregnancy she might have some venin ‘traits’

  4. I have said for a long time now that the comment about the three brother is absolutely important. That being said, I also think that Brennan’s statement about searching for the weapon that killed off the Venin in the Great War is equally important. Either Violet may be that weapon or she can summon that weapon.

    I had not thought of Violet in relation to this particular venin theory in this manner. This opens up a ton of new questions for me.

    1. Right? I have so many questions and I cannot wait to find out the answers as we go along!

  5. I agree and have to add to this that it keeps being said that there is only one known way to kill vein, the alloy hilted daggers. Yet violet can kill them with her signet, and her signet is drawn to the runes in wyvern.

    1. I think in Iron Flame its kinda implied that Andarna may have been left behind as a safeguard against failing wards. The ones who raised the wards orignally knew that in the future wards may need to be raised again, so left an egg from the ONE (7th) type needed for full strength wards. Unclear to me is why the egg was left behind and where all the 7th type of dragons went. If it says in IF, i dont remember.

      1. It does not say. My guess? They are on the isles. That’s what I think… But it’s true, she was def left behind with one purpose. And he’s another interesting thing, I think the 7th breed all have precognition

  6. If Vi is inmune ( because she was drained before), is Dain the same case (drained by Jack)?

    1. I don’t think so. I think there are different. I think it has to do with the idea that maybe Lilith was venin and Violet was in her womb. Or something similar. Or Lilith was attacked and turned when pregnant, which again would be different.

      1. The idea that Venin are living among the riders and scribes and infantry AND the rebels in Aretia terrifies me! I had no idea that was possible. Why?? Why have this war outside the borders when the enemy is living within the populace? Is it some kind of double- crossing plotline where the rebels (Xaden, Brennan, etc) are all Venin trying to destroy/capture Navarre for control of the Vale?

        1. I think that’s exactly it. On one level, Navarre want their borders protected by the wards so they can continue to bond dragons. On the other, venin want access to the Vale because it’s delicious feeding grounds, right? And I do think Navarre knows that they have venin amongst them. I’m certain they do know…but they are not doing enough to exterminate them.

  7. At its core, magic demands balance. Whatever you take will be recouped, and it is not the wielder who determines the price.
    —Magic: a Universal Study for Ridersby Colonel Emezine Ruthorn”
    > if Lilith turned while pregnant or was just attacked draining Violet, Magic balance might have given Vi the weapon/power to get rid of venin.

    Though there is some debate, it is greatly believed that turning venin heightens one of the dark wielder’s senses. It is this scholar’s belief that the one responsible for the death of King Grethwild developed keener eyesight. For not even the best of His Majesty’s royal fliers could see through the darkness the venin hid within to slay our beloved king.
    > Lilith power does seem insanely strong. She even seems to know where her kids are.
    – wonder what sense will be heightened for Xaden

    1. I love the first theory. But also magic took something serious from Vi, right? Her outer strength.
      Ok, so we are on the same page you and I. We both think Lilith was venin right? I do 100%.

      Xaden’s heightened sense? (insert joke on making Violet … even better lol). Ok, but seriously, something they both need. Being very fast? He is already so fast isn’t he? The power of hiding better in the shadows? Like even better than before?

  8. I have a theory on the three brothers and I’m not sure where else to put it so it’s going here….
    I think the three “brothers” were actually the three powerful species on the land. Dragon, gryphon, and human. The humans abused their power and took too much from the land therefore creating the barrens. The Great War happened and they split the land into sections. Dragon, gryphon, and human. The “good” humans went with either the dragons or gryphons and swore to not channel direct anymore in order to be granted access out of the barrens. All was well as the venin were defeated but either a: they regrew their population and infiltrated the other territories or b: people again became power hungry and turned venin and they have a secret outpost in the barrens.

    1. I like the theory actually. So we’re not thinking in the literal terms of brothers, but more like the three different species, which are not four: Dragon, gryphon, human and venin.
      I think it’s a combo of a and b btw. People are easily corrupted.

      1. Yes. Exactly, three different species. As for the combo I agree with that.

    2. Excellent theory!

  9. Couple of questions:
    What happens if venin don’t feed. there’s not much to go on from the encounter at Cordyn but there might be something there to help Xaden perhaps? Prob in the books of Tecarus… if the chest wasn’t destroyed they could keep him from feeding.

    2 questions around Xaden turning Vening.
    1. At its core, magic demands balance. Whatever you take will be recouped, and it is not the wielder who determines the price.
    —Magic: a Universal Study for Ridersby Colonel Emezine Ruthorn”
    2. it is greatly believed that turning venin heightens one of the dark wielder’s senses. It is this scholar’s belief that the one responsible for the death of King Grethwild developed keener eyesight. For not even the best of His Majesty’s royal fliers could see through the darkness the venin hid within to slay our beloved king.
    > what will this be for Xaden?

    Nobody has talked about Caroline. If Jack is venin, there’s no way she’s not. There has to be more to this character.

    Also something contradictory that might put Dain’s loyalty into question. Jack says that ‘we’ were placing lured while they were smuggling weapons. But when Dain says about Jack’s memories, he says Jack only placed them… I wanted to believe dain is good but maybe this is an Easter egg… he’s not saying the full truth about the runes for luring. Plus why did his father show him where the ward stone is? 😔

    She’s in front of us all, her three children and the place she’s sacrificed us—and her very soul—for.”
    > another Easter egg that general sorrengail is venin

    1. 1. I think they become unstable? That’s what I can imagine. We know from the ending of Iron Flame that it’s all about control.
      2. Ouch. I need to read Iron Flame again, slooooowly and pay attention to every last detail. How did I miss this. So I think his price will be the relationship with Violet.
      3. I made a joke on your previous comment but I think this will have to be something like extra shadows (as in extra stealth) or extra mind reading right? Intuition. Or high emotive anticipation or something? Or just ultra fast. He’s already soooo fast!
      4. She is his love interest. She’s either venin or she is comes from a family of venin. Venins are such Slytherins aren’t they? haha
      5. Nope. Dain is a bad boy. Cath stinks. Cath vouched for him (that was an Easter Egg 10000%). We HATED Dain. We accepted Dain and forgave him. And now? We are going to be back to HATING Dain. My prediction.
      6. Yup! She’s venin alright! And Vi is going to be like….woaaaaah! My very own mother was venin. And that would explain anyway why she was keeping Vi at arm’s length always. She knew she’s going to be special! And venin will want her. I think by keeping her at bay, she protected her.

      1. 1. Right. The need to pull more prob makes them lose their marbles
        2. I was thinking more along the lines of magic. What could keep him in magic balance after reaching? Lose his second signet? But not impacting really him cause Venin are intinssic.
        3. I think on his way to see jack he makes a comment about his shadows so you might be right. At first I thought it would be one of the 5 senses – like smell or hearing.
        4. Hahaha def!!
        5. I want to be wrong but yeah, too many things pointing to Dain being just like his father.
        6. 100% when in Montserrat when vi and Mira say our family was never like that. I felt that was a clue that their mother had other ‘priorities’ and didn’t want to be found for being Venin. The less they knew the better.

        1. 2. What if, we need to find another chest? And put Xaden in it for a while? I mean, why bring up that chest at all and Violet specifically destroying it in that arena? To keep Xaden from spiraling into the monster he will become?
          3. I would LOVE for him to have an extra sense.

          I’m back to reading Fourth Wing and Iron Flame looking for easter eggs. I feel like there are things I could still discover and report back!

          1. Clues to go with the chest idea besides in the arena: Xaden and Violet are always talking about the armoire. I realize it’s because they destroyed one the first time they were together but it’s always brought up whenever they are in either of their rooms. Violet also uses it in her metaphor to Imogen when talking to her about Xaden. Xaden and Violet also use it as a metaphor when they’re talking about why Violet won’t ask Xaden the questions she really wants answers to. Maybe a clue as to how Xaden and Violet will continue to talk to one another without Xaden hurting Violet as they figure out how to change him back and destroy the venin. If they can put a chest in their room behind their door where no one can hear them or come across.

          2. This is a brilliant freaking theory Rebecca!!!!! I LOVE it

          3. Sorry I just also wanted to say that I think Xaden’s inntensic power will be more powerful than his shadows as venin. It’s obvious that the sage is using a type of inntensic to get into Violet’s and Xaden’s dreams to realize that the only thing that weakens them is their love for one another (which is also their greatest strength). If they’d only talk to one another they would’ve realized they were both being hunted in their dreams.

          4. Could it be that the venin is somehow Xaden’s grandfather? That would explain a loooot.

  10. venin adapt to our fighting styles so quickly
    > they are intinnsic.

    1. FUUUUUUUUUUUDDDDDDGGGGGGGEEEEEE SOLE. I hereby ask for permission to make a full on theory out of this! (with credit)

      1. Of course. I think that could tie with them communicating to Vi and/or Xaden in their dreams.

    2. This makes so much sense!!!!

  11. Is this why wyvern have suddenly reappeared? Did someone give the venin runes?”
    > who? What had made them disappear?

    1. No idea but honestly, it might be someone from Tyrrendor. Well, Aretia really. Someone who has joined the cause on the right side and ended up on the wrong side…

      1. Xaden’s mom? Has to be someone close to his father for him to need that chest to keep them from feeding.

        1. That’s what the readers are saying on the FB group. That it’s def Xaden’s mom. I still feel like she’s a good person and not venin.
          But that chest is questionable to be fair. She disappeared when Xaden was 10. Why? Maybe she was in that chest all along…

          1. Maybe she was the first Venin tecarus got to ‘experiment’ with. It would all be in the books Tecarus gave them

          2. Ugh! That’s a weird one. But I kinda…agree with it? Oddly enough.

  12. When I was reading both books I got the strong idea that Violet’s dad was Venin and that’s why Violet was partially drained in her mum’s womb. It could also be why Lilith Sorrengail is happy to be posted at rather than going from city to city so that Nolon can mend him (and practising on Violet’s dad is also why he knows how to contain it in Jack). Also think that could be why Violet’s dad gives her so many books about venin to give her clues. Also Violets mum and dad managed to continue to be together and be in love even though he’s turned venin so that could be a blueprint for Xaden and Violet

    1. I like this theory. I would like to believe that venin + nonvenin could still be together and very much in love

  13. I don’t think you can catch or transfer being venin. It appears to happen when you channel power directly from the Earth instead of from Dragons.

    1. True, but what if she doesn’t venin in her, but she’s partly imune because she’s already been almost drained? By her own mother? Or papa Sorrengail or whoever? When Lilith was pregnant with her. It’s the same steel color the menders cannot mend (Aetos’s arm)

  14. Jessie I hope this is true 🩷

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Hello! This site is dedicated to the Empyrean Series by Rebecca Yarros. I’ve made this place to explore the rich world of Empyrean, full of characters, theories, and places. Each post is carefully researched and updated with the newest details from the series. This site is also a great spot for discussing theories about the Empyrean Series. 🐉
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